Video: From the White House to Broadway: Paul Oakley Stovall

welcome survivors to survivors that was a podcast in collaboration with broader world and the

broadway podcast network my name is jason de coombs and this is my amazing beautiful glamorous

boss ass biatch is that okay to say samantha don't it's a low over here say it

here we are back in the box we haven't been in these boxes and recording an episode in this

formatting quite some time because we've been live from the welcome to times square studio and

so we're back here you know because i think we're like on a little summer like you know taking it a

little slow this summer the hustle is still there but we're just taking a minute to reset and so

here we are in our boxes i think we're like having like a european summer because they they'd be

taking like time off when they need to and i think we need to take the time off to refresh to recharge

you know we got to stay young and fresh so we can't be running around tired all year round i

I think it's so important to listen to your body and listen to your mind and take a minute to recharge

Don't stop the hustle, but just take it back a notch. Keep the work going, but take care of yourself

So that's why we're here, guys. We're in the boxes. I'm over here in Rhode Island looking at the water, just having a breath of fresh air

So, Samantha, before we kicked off, I was telling you that today, the day we're recording this, is the five-year anniversary of the Bridgeport Film Fest, which is insane

That is crazy. insane it's insane um you've been here from the beginning thank you yes i have yeah i was looking

at some pictures yesterday i was like oh my gosh can you believe it's been five years and tickets

are on sale for this year's festival if you want to come september 12th through the 14th there's

an early bird special going on right now i'll put the link in our show notes and maybe put a little

thing right here that says klein.org we get tickets get them now come you'll have such a great time if

you're in new york if you're in connecticut if you're like in mass if you're in rhode island right tell johnny to get his ass down here too anywhere yeah just hop a plane hop a plane see

you at the bridgeport film fest and i just want to shout you out jason it's amazing you know to do

one film festival but then to keep up the momentum to do five is incredible uh it's a lot of work and

i see you i see you and you're crushing it and also people jason has featured oscar nominated

directors and a lot of fierce movies and films and shorts and docs come through this festival and so

go run run to bridgeport samantha we're having some connecticut premieres of stuff that was at

tribeca i can't announce it yet until we signed the doc we spent some time at tribeca earlier this

summer and we got we're getting some of those films at the bridgeport film fest to make their

connecticut premiere so it's super exciting and full circle moment um but i want to talk about

you because you just launched you're in your first year right thank you thank you so about a year ago

I was laid off from my full-time job. Shout out to them. Um, which is like, I never did well in

like a corporate setting ever. Um, but I had the stability and it was flexible enough that I could

still do, you know, my creative stuff or whatever. I got laid off about a year ago. Ever since then

I've been, you know, freelancing in the events industry, event producing, event coordinating

event planning, some media involved in there with the events world, some festival stuff

You know, I've talked a ton about the wide range of events that I've done. So I've launched my own events company

It's called Toots & Co. Toots & Co. You know, all my boys in New York call me Toots

And I was like, what am I going to call this? Because I'm fun. You know, I'm corporate and professionally enough

But ultimately, my vibe is like, we're real. We're real. We're fun

We're doing the work. So I'm Toots & Co. and you know I'm going to be focusing on event planning event producing really and a full event

service company with media looped in there a lot of events have media bled into the event so

my worlds are colliding if you need an event people email me at toots at toots and co.co

and I got you. Yeah, and give me a follow at TootsCo on Instagram

Toots underscore co. And you know, Jay, I'm just – I'm at the point where I'm like, you know what

We talk about this on this episode today with Paul, which we'll talk about him in a minute because he's amazing

We talk about just doing it, right? Essentially, it's like losing your imposter syndrome

just asking or just taking the leap and just doing it. And sometimes that's all it takes

You know, I've sat with this idea for quite a while I'm like, well, what about this? What about that? But what about what? Just do it. I was already

doing the work that I'm going to continue to do. But now I'm just marketing it in a way that will

get me some new business and put me in a position to be like the lead planner or whatever that's

going to look like. And you're never going to know what something's going to be until you do it

right? Like the Bridgeport Film Festival. You had the idea. You did it. We're five years later. And

life is great. And there's so many opportunities. And guys, if you're listening, this is your

message to just do it. You have an idea. You have a dream. You have a passion. Just do it. Just ask

All you have to do is ask and keep it moving. Imposter syndrome is real. Believe in yourself

Confidence. My confidence has grown so much this year. And I can see a difference in the way I'm

being treated in workspaces and the way I'm being treated surrounding – like on carpets and stuff

because my confidence is just grown because that's all it takes, guys

So thanks. Thanks, Jay. Thanks for shouting it out. It's exciting. It's scary too because it's my livelihood

It's my income. I have bills. So it also is like when you're working for yourself, I'm rambling now

but when you are working for yourself, you're working so hard, right

Because there's so many more stakes. You're not like, oh, I'm going to get a paycheck this week no matter what

Like, no. Not no matter what. You need to put in the work. You need to show up

You need to be professional. You need to do quality work. And then it will come

And I think the payoff is going to be incredible. It already has been. So, toots and co, guys, what can I say

Jason, let's talk about our guest today. So incredible. Paul Oakley Stovall

What an icon. Great. How did you like this episode, Jason? No, it just really connected and resonated with me a lot about what he was saying. I always say this, but I think everyone needs to grab their notebook, grab a pen, grab a pencil, and get ready to take some notes because he's dropping gems, especially for those of us who are multi-hyphenage, right

Like you and I who do multiple things, who act and write and produce. And he goes into a really good little antidote about being a producer and how that kind of starts when you were kids on the playground. You're like that producer person. That's probably what they were doing was organizing

even back then I was like that was like oh my gosh I literally was probably doing that

on the swing set right on the swing set on the playground so I just think he just has so many

really good nuggets of information and tips and just really inspiring so I'm so happy we got to

speak with him today I'm so happy that he's like in our orbit he's such an inspiring person so

yeah so I did I went and covered the press day for immediate family a few weeks ago and he had So many amazing stories that immediately I was like Jason we have to have him on He the perfect survival jobs guest for first of all guys wait till you hear his survival job is like iconic

And then his story is about – Probably the most iconic. Actually, though. Actually

And then his story is just about his hustle and the way he has built his own career based on â€

similar to what I was just saying about just doing it, just asking, just going for it

just believing in yourself. It is so inspiring. So it's a good listen, people. It's a good listen

You're going to enjoy it. And shout out to being creatives and making art and advocating for

yourself and living your dreams and living your purpose and just not taking no for an answer

Don't take no for an answer. And if you do hear no, figure out a way to change

your approach and get the yes. Get the yes, yes. Mic drop. Enjoy people

Paul, welcome to Survival Jobs a podcast. We are so excited to have you

Thank you. I didn't even talk to you before we hit record

but I did meet you at the press day for Immediate Family and none of my

audio grabbed so we're so happy. It was good audio too. It was so good

Hopefully the audio is taking today because it did Is it not that day

I also just want to give a big shout out to Tyler Sims because right away we connected

through him and now you're here with us. Tyler, Tyler. Thank you to Tyler

I love your shirt, Paul. Do you know Tyler as well? Yes

Yeah, you've met Tyler. Same Tyler. We're talking a lot about Tyler

Let's move on for his ego. We can't let his ego get any bigger than it already is just kidding just kidding just kidding anyway we're so excited

to have you we have so much to talk about and doing the research about you i was like

is this episode gonna be 30 minutes or three hours we have so many things to talk about so yes let's

keep it moving okay i guess we want to yeah we'll jump into our first question paul which is about

survival jobs and i and samantha told me this but i kind of forgotten so i was doing my research

you worked for Michelle Obama? Yes. And of course I don't officially anymore

but every now and then I'll get a text about, we want to go see a certain Broadway show

Can you connect it? Because, I mean, they could obviously just connect it

but if I know someone in it, or if I know the stage manager or the company manager

I can make it easier for them to maneuver. And, you know, because she needs to kind of get in quick

and get out and all of that. so occasionally I'll get a text

about seeing a show and if I have any connection to that up but back in the day

yeah and that was my survival job and I'll never forget the day that

when I started phasing back into theater writing and acting that Mrs. O said to me

oh I'm just realizing this working for us is your like survival day job

you actually what you want to do is something else like you know because

why would she know that you know Right. Yeah. And I was like, oh, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah. See you later

Wait, so what exactly did you do with her again? I OK, so technically you're a volunteer because you're paid through the government something or whatever

I didn't work in the White House as a as a staff member. So what I did was called Advance and I was an Advance associate

So what we do is, oh, how do you explain it? So if Mrs. O is going to appear somewhere and give a speech or she's going to appear and even just do some volunteer work in a soup kitchen or something, a team has to go in advance of her and scope it out

Figure out where is the where is the holding room where she can be have privacy to make calls or something

Which entrance should she come in? Where will the press be located? Where will her team hang out? Where will the motorcade roll up

She has to be briefed on who's who, who is she going to meet

So there's a whole team and we each take a different leg of what I just talked about

So I worked on the media side. So if it was a big rally, I'd be working overnight, setting up the risers and as per instructions that I would get from someone

tape out which outlet gets to be on which spot, take the photographers down for a closer view at some point during the speech and do it very subtly

so it doesn't distract from what her speech, what she's doing. Wow

So those were the tougher days. But then there were days where she would, you know

speak at an elementary school to some underserved community. And those are really awesome and beautiful experiences

where you could put a little more of yourself into it. Great

You could speak to her press person, the person who's with her

who I answer to and say, hey, there's one little kid who, and he'll be wearing, he's wearing a

purple shirt and he's kind of shy and not participating. If she sort of went to him

it would make his whole life. Because you're there for a week ahead of time

sussing out the situation, or like a fireman had tragically died in two days before they arrived

one time and you just let them know that so when they give their speech they say first we want to

uh say we're very sad to hear about the loss of your community you know you're right that's the

kind of things you have to do as well that's literally iconic very very theatrical actually

you know right because it's it's like you get tech and then you just don't get any previews you just

have opening yeah you just there it's there yeah yeah and they're the best they're the best leading

performers you could ever ask for they know how to come in and knock it out of the park so it was

that part was easy once they got there i mean i have to say that's the most iconic survival job

we've ever had on the show you know we usually are getting like babysitting bartending this is

amazing. Especially for such an icon as First Lady Michelle Obama. Oh, Lord. You said she recognized that

that was your survival job, right? That theater was your dream, your passion

Was there any kind of advice or something you learned from just being in her orbit

and working alongside her and her team? Absolutely. There was an entire shift

in how I handled my career after that because watching her and by extension uh president obama right when they were at an event where they were

both there just how to stay calm under pressure you know i was about four circles distance away

it's not like i hung out with them or anything so but from a distance i was able to just see

like, oh, that's how you handle ups and downs. You don't get too celebratory

and you don't get too down when things don't go your way. And actors, you know, we can go into the deep circles

of hell when you don't get that part that you just knew you were gonna get And so it really helped me to just even that out And then I think that that does affect the way you audition You know the next big show I got was Hamilton And I had had the experience of working near a first not the first but a first president He was the first black president

So the pressures and what that, and I played Washington, I got the role of Washington

So everything that came with that just made me very calm. Not that I didn't care if I got it or not, but that I just, it wasn't my whole life

Right. You know, life was going to go on one way or the other

And I do believe that that affects how you present yourself, what energy you bring into the room

But that's one thing I learned. And just consistency. If you say you're going to do something, do it

and do your best. If you can't show up as your best

probably best not to show up. Yeah. Love that. Well, thank you for sharing that

That's, again, incredibly iconic. Just like you said, your survival job then led you to acting

but you're also a producer and a writer, which we're going to talk so much about

your show coming up in the episode. But ultimately, your producing path

took you to win a Tony for Strange Loop, which is amazing. Congratulations. Can you tell us a little bit about how producing came to be a

passion of yours and what drew you to want to be a part of Strange Loop? And just a little bit

about that process. Yeah. I think any producer who does it full time, I don't necessarily do it

full time, although I still look for projects now. Any producer will tell you they've been

producing since they were five years old. They've been that kid that got all the other kids together

and this is how we're going to do it. And we're on the playground

No, no, no, you're a cowboy. No, no, no. We need two more cowboys. You know, they just been producing

And then they found out it was something you could actually do as a profession. So I think I was, I always had it in me

So how it came to be for me, I was in Hamilton on tour and I was casual

I'd say a little more than acquaintance, casual friends with Michael R. Jackson and T. Oliver Reed

and Jamie Separo. And the four of us would, you know, we'd gather now and then when we could

at Hourglass Tavern. I don't know if it's with us anymore over on 46th and 9th

And now and then we'd gather and just talk and, you know, about what our dreams were

what we're working on, stuff like that. But not anything major. So I just had an eye on Michael

when Strange Luke came to be, when it was at Playwrights. I couldn't get there. I was on tour. But when I was in Philadelphia on tour with Hamilton

I heard from James Jackson, who was in it, that they're going to do a Monday night

concert performance of it at Joe's Pub. It had closed at playwrights, but they were actively

trying to keep the buzz going to get into Broadway. And he said, our producer, Barbara

Whitman is going to be there. I will introduce you if you can hop on that train from Philly on your

day off. Did it, showed up, James introduced me, Barbara took one look at me and said, well

I'm looking to diversify my producing circle. And if you want to jump on, you can learn as you go

And that's what happened. I just said yes to life and said, yes, I'm going to do that

God, I love New York and like these moments of like just meeting somebody

and doing something and it leading to something unexpected. yeah it doesn't happen anywhere else in the world no and putting yourself out there like you could

said it was my day off i don't want to travel two or three hours i always want to you know chill in

my hotel or whatever it is you know but like i'm gonna do this i'm gonna go and i'm gonna see what

this opportunity may bring and it brought you a toady at the end of the day can you believe it

that's blessed that's amazing yeah where do you keep the tony on my uh ledge in my condo in

Chicago. I live in Chicago. Listen, and I treat it like every friend who's an actor that comes over

I say, hey, here, give your Tony speech. Here, I'll video. And I let everybody hold

How heavy is it? To me, it's just, you know, it's a who would have thunk it

Right. How heavy is it when you're holding it? It's substantial. It's heavier than it looks, that's for sure

Right, right. Oh, that's So cool. So you wear so many hats. I think we got to transition a little bit to the performer side, if that's OK

Yeah. You were in the first national tour of Hamilton and eventually went on to replace, like you said, Mr. George Washington

How did Hamilton come to you? How did that opportunity come to you? And what was the audition process like

I had had a pretty good regional theater career, Chicago actors. you know yeah i was working i was working and i had taken that time off to uh to work in the

political arena and actually okay so felicia rashad had directed immediate family a couple

of times already and then she was directing our lady of 121st street in new york and said are you

around anywhere they're giving me an assistant director they're not going to pay you much of

course, but, you know, come on, be in New York and learn a little bit about directing and, uh

let's, let's, you know, let's work on this project together. So I was, I found myself in New York

and then we were in that season when lots of Broadway shows were opening. I was friends with

Jesse Mueller from Chicago days. And I said, Hey, Felicia, I can get us in the opening night of

Carousel, you know, to which she looked at being something to the effect of, I could have done that

But okay. If you want to take the credit for being able to get us in. Okay

I can picture that look from her. Right. In a very fun way. She was just like, oh, that's nice

He's like, really? We're rolling up to the Imperial. She's like, I'll never forget when I did the Wiz here or whatever it was. Dream Girl or something

So she had already performed there. She was like, yeah, you know, here we go

but at the after party I ran into I can't remember the woman's name one of the one of the casting

folks at Bernie Chelsea and I think everyone and their mom had done this sort of prelim audition

for Hamilton it's not that hard to get that my agent had kind of got me seen by someone right

And I was very, how do I say it? I was Chicago

I was full of my Chicago ego when I did the audition

Not rude or anything, but I had decided how I was going to do George Washington

And I think that this woman saw a bit of a spark, right

So she said, oh, he could maybe do it. So let me guide him to the way that I know will get him at least seen by the top creators

And I kept sort of resisting like, well, I see him like this. And she just looked at me like, oh, OK, I really think you should try it this way

And I was like, oh, no, no. Just the dumbest And I took that to be like I being a real artist and this is actually the way i going to get it because i going to show that i thought about it you know right but commercial

theater is that train has left the station you need to get up there and these people are paying

dollars to see this show they want to see the show great you could go do that somewhere else

so i ran into her at this opening night party and i just i came clean and i was like you know

I just want to say thank you for your patience. I was a bit of a brat in that audition, but you know, haha

Oh, well, next time. Cause they hadn't called me. This audition had happened a while ago

Right. Right. So I knew I was out of there and she just kind of smiled at me and said

so what are you doing in town? And I told her and she said, okay, next day, my agent calls me and

says, I don't know what's going on, but they want to see you again. Oh, wow. Now I think it's because

I just came clean. Right. I said to her, I know I was a pain in the butt

And when some lose some, sorry if I, whatever. Cause I could tell she, when she first saw me, she was like, that guy

So I got, I got, I got back in and I would say it's, I don't know what it is for different

people, but it was a total of about being seen six or seven times for me

Fifth time you see several of the creatives. Lynn was in there

sixth time they're sending you off with the resident musical director and resident

director to have a work session where they're recording it and they

don't want you memorized you have the music on a stand and they're sort of taking you through

the material and then they tell they told me okay so when you

get seen next do that and then you start then you start to get it

so then the seventh time they're all back in the room again and you do it. And I would never forget. I was

that's when I get nervous when I'm trying to repeat something that I was given to do

Right. And the notes weren't there for the, for the big part of one last time. And, uh

Alex Lacamoire just stood up from the table and said, what would happen if we took that one step

down and here comes ego, right? No, no, no, no, no, no. I can do it. I can do it. I just

hold on let me get some more hold on i can do it i can do it he was like i'm sure you can but i think

it would sound better a little lower for you so can we just do that okay okay okay not thinking

that if he's getting up to even do that that means they see everything else they just want you to be

able to repeat it eight times a week right right and that you might be able to hit that note but by

Friday evening. Ladies and gentlemen, tonight the role of George Washington will be

played by somebody else. Or those matinees aren't going to hit. So we took it down a step

Of course, that show is not easy. I'm not going to say it was easy, but it felt right

And then I got the call about a week or so later. Can I just say, already both

of these stories you told about your producing journey And now this journey, it's because you're making connections and talking to people

And that is such an important lesson, I think, for everybody to not be scared to say hello to somebody because you may have thought you bombed the audition or not to take the risk and talk to somebody and say, hey, yeah, I might want to be interested in producing

I don't know anything, but I can learn. These things, these steps we have to take in life are so important, especially in this industry

So thanks for sharing and shout out to all of our listeners to take that lesson

Yeah. Everybody just know that that's what you're training for. You're not training for the performance that you hopefully will get to give, you know

and when that's honey, you're training to walk into a room and know who you are and

be yourself and know that that's enough. You're training to not be afraid, as you just said, to say, oh, I recognize that person

Hi, I'm so-and-so. not in a fan boy or fan girl way or a fan they way just as a human being i'm a human you're a human

it's 8 p.m i'm assuming you've eaten once or twice today you've gone to the bathroom a few times you

you you you do the things that everybody does great right you know sure for sure so so you got

the part and then you were on tour with hamilton yeah hamilton is not like an easy show it's long

It's meaty. It's intense. So can you tell us how, and I imagine like tour life is tough as well

right? You're traveling, you're not in your home, you're not in your bed. What did you do on tour

to stay grounded and, and, and, and, and calm and keep your energy up to do this, this show as much

as you were doing it with the travel? Uh, I had toured before and I had traveled so much, uh

when I was doing advanced for the Obamas, you know, once you jump on that train, that train

station too. So every week we're in a different city. We're overseas for two weeks, then we're

back and it's, we're in a small town in Ohio. And then you get a call, we're going to South Africa

So you have to kind of just know how to pivot and stay calm within the storm

And I don't think it would serve any of the listeners or viewers if I was dishonest. So

to be honest, it was difficult for me doing Hamilton more in a personal way. I think

you know, I had a lovely time with several of the people I worked with, but it's a, you know

Hamilton is, it was such a moment in the zeitgeist. It was such a, you know, it was a moment

It was a revolution. It was what it said it was, right? So that part of it for me was difficult

I enjoyed signing after the show and trying to engage with young people

and encourage them to reach for their dreams. A young woman I'll never forget said to me

I said, which character do you want to play? And she said, well, I only can choose

between Eliza, Angelica. I said, no, why can't you be Burr? Do you know the Burr rap

I'm looking at you, I bet you do. And she started doing it. And I said, yeah, you could do anything

Like that part of the experience was great. Wow. you know, uh, uh, the, the hype part of it and keeping your feet on the ground

Right. Was, was the difficult thing. Remembering that push comes to shove. You're just a person

you just standing up there singing. You're not, you know, you're not special. Right

In the way that that can creep in those, those thoughts can creep in. So I would

course sort of keep to myself i did a lot of writing and that's you know started working on

some new plays and stuff and then it all worked out yeah yes now here we are with a play that you

wrote yeah directed by transition great what a transition thank you you knew our notes like

i know how to do this yeah and great assist uh with the iconic felesha rashad who is just uh she

I don't know her personally, but I just hear great things about her and just watching her in interviews and just literally growing up with her as like a second mom

Honestly, she's just such an incredible woman. Yeah. So she's directing her play

being put on at the North Carolina's Blumenthal Arts. Samantha told me there's a great story

of how this play can be in working with her. Do you mind sharing that? And what inspired you to write this piece

And were you writing this while you were on tour? It was already written when I was on tour

What I wrote on tour was a play about Phyllis Wheatley called Written by Phyllis

Oh, wow. And I was working on my adaptation, I co-adapted James Baldwin's Giovanni's Room

and just recently directed that world premiere. Yeah, I mean, we directed the world premiere of it in Philly

just like a month and a half ago. So I was working on those two things

But Immediate Family, okay, so Felicia had directed it already in 2012 and 2015

So this production that came up was more a matter of logistics

and schedules. And do both of us want to jump back in to the piece and see how it resonates now

And thankfully, we both did. But how it came to be, well, this was my first play

And I think any writer worth their salt, you know, the first thing you write about is what you know, what you see every day

So you tend to write about your own life experience. You tend to

And I was in a theater company in Chicago that did a lot of new work about Face Theater Company

And they were plotting, planning a New Works Winter Festival. And my career in Chicago had jumped off a bit

So I was, you know, I had done a musical with Tanya Pinkness and Andre De Shields

I was doing pretty good with my acting and singing career. And so they said to me, why don't you host the evening and you can sing songs in between presentations of the new scenes

We're just going to show scenes from work that we're considering doing. And our stakeholders and board members and invited guests will just watch each one and we'll just have a nice evening of cocktails and you can host the evening

And I, you know, in my huge ego, you know, all this goes back to ego

I was feeling some type of way. And I said, well, why can't I present my new work? And they said, oh, I mean, they were very, they're my colleagues and my friends. They were like, oh, of course you can. We didn't know you were a writer. We didn't know. Of course you can show your piece. Can we see it? And I said, well, you can see it tomorrow

and I went home that night and wrote what would become a media family so I sort of like talked

myself into having to and so that's another reason why this is what I wrote about because

I'm sitting there going I don't have time to be researching I don't have time to think of some

topic I have to write about what's recently going on in my life and so I I put a certain spin on it

and of course it was so rudimentary it wasn't anywhere near what it is now and I showed up the

next day and I knew I only had to give him a scene so I gave him what I thought was the best

two-person scene and they said okay great what uh where does this fall into play and I was like

it's act two scene three yep that's what it is we got uh Francois Batiste who's still a great

friend, he read one role and Christopher Lupinyak read the other one

And the audience, you know, it, it, it, it could have been from a movie

I'm peeking from behind the backstage thing and the audience is laughing. And once they laughed, I said, Oh

this is almost better than having to go out there and do it. Right. Right. Hey

who wants to do eight times a week when a check can come and you don't have to

do it. So I ended up writing the whole thing. It has some storefront productions, non-equity, the Chicago theater life

I don't want to say better than New York, but it's richer in Chicago than New York in that you can sort of get your work up

Right. So we have like 200 storefront theaters. So you can always get your work up in Chicago

So I was able to get it up. and then some people took notice

and then it went from there. Story number three of how you just speak what you want

or like take a shot and then continue to these amazing things

Oh, well, number four is you asked me how did Felicia get involved? Yeah

So I'm off. We had some time off near the 4th of July holiday

when I was doing advanced work and I decided to come home to Chicago

and someone said, oh, these actors are reading, each one's reading a line from the Declaration of Independence for this big thing

downtown, you know, celebrating the day. And so I got to see a lot of my actor friends and they were like, hey, hey, hey, oh wait

there's the sister of Ntozaki Shange, Aoife Baeza, she has a new musical and somebody just dropped out

and they're just doing a workshop, a week-long workshop, and she's over there

You'd probably be great. Hey Aoife, this is Paul, he's a singer, he could do it. And she was like

oh, are you free at this time? And I said, yeah. So she hired me on the spot

I get to rehearsal a month or so later and there's Felicia Rashad sitting

on the other side of the table. She was in the workshop. Wow

So I just met her like that. It turns out, you know, I had a

I had, you know, I had that utility role where you play like five roles and they're all just have like a couple of lines

you know, but I had one scene with her that was kind of crazy and fun and nutty

And so I kind of got to know her a little bit. And I got the, you know, she said

oh, somebody told me you work for Mrs. O. You know, we got to just sort of talking. And I got my nerve up to say

would you read this play of mine? So here we go again

I just had the nerve to say, can I email it to you

She said, sure. I emailed it to her. She wrote me back and said, this is wonderful

Good luck. And I saw that she had started directing, but she was mostly directing things she had been in

She was directing Raisin in the Sun. She was directing Gem of the Ocean. And I thought to myself, I don't see anything world premiere on this list of shows

I'm seeing that she's directed. So when the opportunity came for my show to be at the Goodman Theater, I thought, man, I should ask Felicia if she wants to draft it

Thinking like a producer, right? So you see all the wheels turn, right

So I emailed her and said, what would you think of directing it

And she said, is that a real thing? Is there a theater

How real is this? And I said, it's actually, we're going to the Goodman in like a month

And she said, call my manager. Here's the number. I instead called our producers and said, you guys make this call

You do it. They took care of it. It all went through

And she called me a few days later at three o in the morning and said okay Paul so we doing well I think she was in LA so it was like midnight for her oh right yeah yeah yeah yeah so she didn know where i was in the world she just had to call me

and she said hey paul um all right so we're gonna do this so let's talk about the play

let's let's get in there and i said okay and she said so you got eight locations and i said uh-huh

it was quiet she said can you get it down to four and i was like yes get the play down

to four locations, but that means I'd have to, in my mind, I wasn't complaining out loud

You know, I was just like thinking, how would I do that? And she said, just think about it

You know, I've got my own, I was able to get my own set designer because a lot of things were in

place, but she was able to, she said, if I take this, I want my set designer. And they had been

talking. So the late, great John Iacovelli. And she said, just try. So I stayed up and I figured

out, okay, so then that scene at the cemetery, I can cut that and put that dialogue

here and, you know, sent it off to her. She reads it immediately

calls me up. Oh, yes, yes! Yes! Oh, Paul, Paul, oh, darling, yes

yes! It's wonderful, wonderful! I'm like, okay, good. I'm thinking, all right, we're ready to go

And she said, um, can you get it down to two? No

I was like, hold up, hold up. But I thought she was planning that the whole time

But the first thing out of my mind was this one major character would not

because there's two locations I couldn't take out. So I knew the only two I could take out were these other two

And that means one of the major characters wouldn't even appear until like halfway through

So I said to her, I said, but that means that Christian wouldn't come in until the play's halfway done

And she went, yes. Oh, my gosh. And she said, do you see

Do you see? Yes. We don't need to see. I said, oh, my God

She's a genius. She's a genius. Yeah. And she's a writer. And, you know, she's all of it

So I did it. and that's the version we rolled with and that's the one we've been with

To me, that solidified, if not a friendship, at least a working relationship

that I thought was going to be very useful for me for the rest of my life

It turns out, here we are. Here we are. Thank you so much

for sharing these stories. It's so important. We've said this a lot

on this show that sometimes all you have to do is ask. If you have the work and you

believe in yourself and you have like you you lose the imposter syndrome and you trust yourself

all you have to do is ask that's what all these people are out here doing so thank you for sharing

to solidify that yeah that theme yeah the answer might be no okay but it's definitely gonna be no

if you don't ask correct right you would have zero answer if you didn't ask that's right i think a

big thing i always learned is that it could be a no for now it doesn't mean it's a no forever right

It could be in just this moment. At least you're putting yourself out there. At least you're getting, you're on someone's radar now, right

That's right. I'm sorry. I think I cut you off, Samantha. I apologize. No, please

Please, please. So this, obviously we've talked about this is not the first time this play is being put on

This is not the first time Felicia directed it. Does it feel different every time you put on Immediate Family

And what is sticking out about this particular production for you to share with us

Yes, it does feel different. but particularly this production for two reasons

It's 10 years since we've done it. And this is the first time Felicia had complete casting control

When she first did it at the Goodman, it had already been cast. Right

So she had to work with what was in front of her. Right. She, when she took it to LA to Mark Taper Forum

she kept four of the originals and cast two new people. So there's six actors

This time, you know, we had Duncan Stewart casting. We had the team

We had auditions in New York. She got to pick from the New York, you know, pool

And she had just done purpose. So everybody was showing up to these auditions

Of course. And I mean, that's neither here nor there. But she got her choices to put together what she wanted to put together completely

And so it's been a learning experience for me because when we first did it, a couple of the actors were friends of mine

They were people that spoke my language, that knew how I write and how I talk and how I, you know, so they slid right into the characters

And it's been a journey for me watching these brilliant actors find it anew

You know, I've had to sit on my hands because I'm like, it's this. But they don't know that

They don't know me. They don't know anything but what's on the page. And I've had to sit back and go, oh, I'm going to learn a lot about, you know, maybe that's not as obvious as you think it is

Because they're all great actors. So maybe when an actor gets caught in a corner, it might be you, Paul, that has written them into a corner

So that's been a good experience. And she, again, has been there to help me understand being painted into a corner is exactly what any great artist wants, because then you get to use your personal skill to get out of that situation

Get out of it, yeah. And that's how we learn how good we are. and that goes for writers directors actors paint yourself since i was if i gave any advice i would

say paint yourself into a corner and then press play and see what happens and see see what you're

made of right the most fun can happen right that's where the that's where the true inspiration comes

right how do you get out of the trap that's on your leg how do you the the clock is ticking

and the door is locked and you have to figure it out. So what are you made of

I love that. Paul, tell everyone why they need to hop on a plane

right now to North Carolina. If they're not in North Carolina, if they are

they need to get over. Why do you need to run over and see immediate family getting their tickets today

Well, you need to get it today because it's selling out. That's Tom Dabber, the CEO at Blumenthal

He's been very thoughtful, almost reverse engineering the show. And he has put it on the Broadway series at Blumenthal

So there's a subscription that comes along with it. And a lot of the people that are seeing Hamilton, Wicked, Shucked, you know, whatever's, I think, what's the one that you repeated three times

Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice. I think that's on the season. Life of Pi is coming next week

So he's got the big touring shows coming through and my show is just plucked right in there amongst them

And so people will assume that it already is there Oh did you see that Oh it must have already been on You know it kind of a smart We see if it a smart tactic It a it a it a great idea Yeah And we see how it pans out

So I would say get on that plane or take a nice long train ride, stop through D.C. and have a nice leisurely time down the coast and see the show because you will see your own family and you will see yourself

It is on its surface. I get asked a lot. Oh, you're writing this show about religion, sexuality, the black community

You know, that happens to be who's in the play. That's like telling me when you meet me

oh, you are black and gay and religious. No, I'm just a human that is in the process of being

That's what human being means. It's a verb. I'm a human being

And so you'll see people who are just up on stage being, and I guarantee you

you're going to see one or two or maybe three that you say, oh, that's me

Oh, I've been in that situation. And I made that same mistake

But there's a lot of forgiveness in the show. there's a lot of endings that

you know endings that are really new beginnings and that's all that life is that's all that life is

because the sun comes up the next day right so yeah come so that you can understand yourself

better and forgive yourself a lot of times people you know when I was playing George Washington

people would we have to do interviews in every city we get to and they would ask me inevitably

what's your favorite line from the show you know that's fair and they want me to say one last time

or they want me to say history has a size and I would say my favorite

line in the show is when the entire company sings forgiveness can you imagine

because that's what I think the whole show is about the show is about Eliza Hamilton really

in my mind so she forgave and because she forgave she put all the papers together because if she hadn't done that

would have been lost to history yeah right but she had a great well of forgiveness in her

um and so i think that's what life is about because forgiveness is for you not for the

person that you forgive that's so true you know half the time they're not even going to know you

forgave them you may not have the opportunity to tell them yeah you know they don't know but if you

can really let it go a bad relationship it's so hard that's one of the toughest things in life is

forgiveness yeah i'm sitting up here talking all about it and it took me eight years just recently

i was able to really let something go i thought i had but that was i was lying to myself right

and then something occurred and made me go oh you haven't really let this go

right time to take the time to do that so that's what i would say get on that plane it's worth it

Get on the plane, people. Yeah, or take a train, take a long bus

Take a kayak. Take a kayak. Yeah, jump into the ocean of kayak

Or road trip. Road trip. Road trip it up. No, Paul, but I love what you said about, like, I feel like sometimes people think that, like, a Black cast is, like, not relatable

But you can have, like, a unique, right, a unique perspective in a show and a play, a movie

But it can still have universal themes that anybody can relate to. And that's what it sounds like. I haven't seen The Media Family

are you talking about it? That's what it sounds like to me. And it's why I want to go down there

And make no mistake, make no mistake. It's very black in a way that there are probably things

that a white audience will go, what? You know, just things that are within our community. But

to me, that makes it more universal. If I go to see a play, a Chekhov play, and they're doing

Russian stuff up there and they're doing stuff. Sometimes I sit there going, what is that cultural

thing. I don't understand why he doesn't just, but it doesn't matter because I can see the truth

happening on stage. So I certainly use a very black patois. There's subject matter that is

within our community that deals with food and just how we do things. You know what I mean

But that to me makes it even more universal. Everybody can relate to, oh, in our family

I know because we do this at the Polish or the Mexican or the, you know, we do it this way

Right. But I know, I know what's happening up there. Yeah. Listen, I am a white girl and I connected a lot with the whole family and purpose in various ways

Yeah. Hello. It's not because they weren't trying to be palatable in some way to a homogenous

Yeah. Audience. Right. And by the way, I'm a woman, not a girl

I just called myself a girl. Like I'm 12 years old. I'm an adult woman, everyone

Don't worry. Don't worry. Well, you've already shared so much wisdom and advice on this show directly and indirectly

But we have a lot of listeners who maybe feel stuck in their survival jobs, who want a career as an artist, whatever that may mean for them

So what is your advice for someone who is feeling stuck, who is feeling like they're auditioning or writing and walls and walls and walls and can't get that breakthrough

I have a friend who's going through that right now. And I'm going to say three things, but I might forget one of them because I'm getting up there

So I'm going to try to go so I don't forget. One, use your survival job as an opportunity to learn something about yourself

Whatever that job is. if you are scrubbing floors, what is the, and I mean, I'm being literal. What is the movement

the ache, the FOMO? What is it that you can dig deeper into yourself? So you're ready

not just as an artist, but as a human being to take it on when you do get that opportunity

Because a lot of times what happens is it comes too easy and you mess it up because you're not

really knowing who you are. So use that survival job, carry five plates

people not speaking to you or looking you in your eye and treating you as

what are you learning? So use it. Number two, I would say

ask yourself every day, every other day, every week, can I live without it

And if you ever answer, yes, I can live without it. Stop. Don't just give it up. You have to not be able to live without it

and I knew I was going to forget number three and I did it's okay

you're going to save it for next time we're in the studio yeah I knew I was going to forget it

what is oh no I just remembered because my friend we were sitting talking in New York before I left

he just had such a great attitude and I was asking him things

and he was saying nope I don't have an agent and I would expect him

to be like ugh trying to get an agent and i said oh well how do you find auditions i just showed up to evas

so it's your attitude this friend of mine has an incredible attitude so attitude is always a choice

you know that's what you're talking about this survival job feeling like i don't have a choice

i have to do it because i have to pay my rent well you may not have a choice about that but you do have a choice in how you walk up and down the street every day Right Because if a rain cloud is following you people are going to move out the way

100%. I don't want to get rained on. Who does? Right. Nobody wants to get rained on

And if you feel like you don't have a choice of your attitude, antidepressants are a miracle drug

There's also like mangosteen and some kind of... Well, you weren't specific

So yes, it can be homeopathic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's options, people

There's options. Paul, you are so iconic. This has been amazing. Yeah

You're amazing. I had my notebook. I wanted to take some notes because I just really needed to hear what you were giving out today

As someone who wears multiple hats to, or tries to anyway, it's much needed

So thank you. Thank you for that. You're so welcome. We can all get through this together

That's it. Do a little something also that makes you feel good about the world every day

It can be something small, but it builds up. Felicia talks about this a lot

You know, when I get my sort of big ideas about, we have to do this and we got to march and do this

And she's like, oh, child, oh, child, you got to move in a different way

You have to plant, I mean, Lynn says in the show, plant a seed in the garden that you might never get to see

You have to get in the garden. You have to smile at a stranger. You have to help someone who needs help. One on one. Put one good thing out in the world. And then maybe that person will speak differently to their child that evening

and then that child who was bullying some kid at school might be nice to that kid the next day

and then that kid who's having trouble studying because they're getting bullied might get a better

grade and then might apply to this school and then that kid's gonna go find a solution to something

like and that takes a great leap of faith because we all want to see the results of what we do now i

I did this and I want my money and I want my award

and I want my thing. Money. Maybe you just have to know that

you don't get to see it. Yeah. You can feel it though

Love that. Thank you. Thank you. You're the best. I'm so glad I did this

I like you guys a lot. Thank you. We always like to end the show

with a game because oh yes we do get pretty deep on this show sometimes jason and i are very

like inspirational people and when we start chatting we chat so we like to always bring

it back to have a little bit of fun i'm very competitive i'm not playing against someone

um like yourself pretty much i mean it's based off i'm competitive too paul so we have to have

a game night okay oh you know some uno or something well i have to teach you how to

play bid whist that's a game we a card game we play in the show that i've had to teach the actors

how to play and it is complete wait bill whist bid whist bid whist okay it's a game that's been

lost it's a game that's like spades but on turbo i'm not good at things like this so i'll let you

guys do that i can't play spades is my is my black card gonna get taken i'm gonna get taken away

oh yes you thought i was gonna be like no it's fine no i knew it was coming every time i met

a big old stamp was coming revoked okay okay game time game time samantha is shocked i just

every black person knows how to play spades it's just over my head i'm not good at games i don't

know what you're talking about i'm just being honest i don't play cards i play uno well uno

is a competitive car game right copy yeah so this is a competitive car game in the black culture

yeah yeah got it no you have a partner yeah yeah you have your partner and then yeah yeah yeah

great oh god our game is not a competitive card game we thought we would play a little game called

producer writer or actor multiple hats we're gonna read you off names of

artists maybe they're a producer maybe maybe they're an actor maybe they're all three

and you're going to tell us what they're most well known for

And if it's all of it, it's some of the merch for questions. And, you know, we're just going to have a great time

Okay. And I'll admit it if I never heard it from, okay. Yeah, that was. Are you ready

I'm ready. You see me. I'm like, oh God. Okay. I'm ready. I'm famously known for cheating in all of our, all of our games

I won't cheat. I won't cheat. Okay. If you need to cheat, I can mouth it to you

Okay. Yeah. I'll just, I'll stay here on camera and be like..

I thought you were like, if you need to cheat, you can just... No, no, no. No, Samantha's a straight shooter

She'll tell you. Okay. All right. Okay. First name, Sonia Friedman. Producer

Carrie. Oh, Carrie Young. Sorry. Actor. Karen Olivo. KO is an actor and teacher

Correct. and I also just need to go back I'm so sorry, Carrie Young is an actor

and producer Oh is she? Okay But you still got a point Okay

Oh I'm sorry, I keep doing that some minutes I keep skipping

David Stone That's a producer Correct Lynn Nottage Writer, author, activist

Incredible human correct and producer and producer oh and a producer correct she wears like 14 hats

i don't have the facts of what she produced but it is on the internet okay okay next

susan kalachi watson say that one more time susan kalachi watson i'm gonna say director so incorrect this is your first incorrect answer

susan is an actor and producer yeah she was she played um sterling kane brown's wife on this is us

beth pearson as well as she was just in the residence she was just in a play off broadway

yeah no see now so now you look at two people that she wants and she's an iconic actor i'm

competitive yeah okay okay listen it's just one it's just one that is wrong so you're okay okay

we got like five we're good you're good how about mariska hargitay actor yes and and and executive

producer and director of a new uh documentary you just made up for you just made up for your

one incorrect. Now you're back. Thank you. And you just got all three of those and you got double

points. I met her at a party in London. She is the most lovely, lovely down to earth

Awesome. Her husband's a great person. And he's so hot. Sorry. I'm glad you said it first

because I was going to go there and I thought that's inappropriate. but thanks like sorry marisha i am not coming for your man you are my queen but damn sorry

she's firing on all cylinders yeah yeah okay you're back to 100 the next question

the next person jonathan groff oh okay so actor uh producer for sure correct

I don't think they were directed but actor and producer for sure correct correct he was a

producer on the spring awakening HBO documentary yeah okay Celia Keenan Bulger did I say that right? Bulger

Celia Keenan Bulger absolutely an actor award winning actor she I

I feel like she has dabbled in directing, but I'm not sure

No? Okay. I mean, the internet said, you know, no. I'll just say actor

But her activism, I mean, she's been, she's been like her humanitarian activism

She was even awarded for recently, right? Yeah. That wasn't one of the three things

but that is something she does as well. She's amazing. Okay. Leia Salonga

Actor. For sure. For sure. And, as well as... I guess it's producer

Correct! She was one of the producers on Here Lies Love Oh yeah alright of course Yeah Yeah Yeah With Jose Lana Yes My homie Anna Devere Smith Writer professor activist director genius queen goddess Yes

Yes. All of the things. All of the things. Yes. Yes. Lin-Manuel Miranda. Oh, that guy

well let's see writer director uh actor and i'm i'm obviously he's producing he's probably got a

producer credit on uh the film of uh uh in the heights yeah correct if anybody wears all the

hats he's wearing all the hats he does definitely wear all the hats when does he sleep sleep is

overrated. He's probably also, what do we say, actor, writer, director, producer

And also just the humanitarian work that he does too. Yeah. Iconic. Activist

Last but certainly not least, Queen Felicia Rashad. Oh boy. Well, okay, I know that it's of course actor

and director, and I don't know if it says it on there, but Felicia was

also a producer on my production of Giovanni's Room. I don't know if that's her first producing credit

But we pulled it back to creative consultant because she felt like she wasn't giving enough time to it

She was like I can only be there for just some creative and helping you out all But we had to figure out how to put it in the program Yes But what did you have in there Just writer and actor I mean just director director writer director

Yeah. But now you got double points for throwing in a fun fact we didn't know

So in conclusion, even with your one answer, you still received 100%

which earns you the prize of a VIP invite to the season four launch party

of survival jobs, which will be in the fall, maybe. October? In the fall, maybe. Okay

I'll take that. Hopefully you're back in New York. We will keep you posted

Well, it depends on when in the fall. I have a little gig that I, oh, I guess I can't

talk about it yet. Okay. Yeah, but I wish I could. We'll find out soon enough

Congratulations on the game, Paul. This episode is amazing. We're so grateful that you joined us before we let you go please let our listeners know where they can keep

up with you on social media how to keep up with your projects how to get tickets to immediate

family let us know all of the things okay you can find me on social media at tall power paul

and you can get tickets for i know i love it you can get tickets to immediate family at BlumenthalArts.org B-L-U-M-E-N-T-H-A-L-A-R-T-S

dot org BlumenthalArts.org and it runs through August 31st or September 7th

I'm not sure but it's we're starting tech tomorrow one of those one of those amazing and if you tuning in because you a Paul fan obviously and you don follow us yet follow us at Survival Jobs Pod on Instagram and TikTok on Facebook at Survival Jobs A Podcast

Shoot us an email at survivaljobspod at gmail.com. Follow my boy Jason at Jason A. Coons

And I am Sammy Toots. S-A-M-M-Y-T-U-T-Z. Jason. Look at him. Bye. Back to Betty to end the show

Can you just use sign? You get confetti. It never works for me, but..

Oh, it's not working for me. Just a minute. Maybe because you're the host

That's what I was saying. Maybe because I can't get the link. Yeah, yeah. The confetti is in celebration of this iconic episode

Well, what I'm looking at, my frame is under yours, so I'll just pretend like the confetti is coming down

I'm falling on you. It is. It is. Rain on me, you know what I mean

Thank you so much, Paul. Thank you, Paul. Thanks, you all. You're an icon. Hey, survivors

Thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of Survival Jobs, a podcast

If you like what you heard, please like, subscribe, and follow. Please leave us a review

Shoot us an email at survivaljobspod at gmail.com. Give us your thoughts

We love this show. It's our little podcast that could, and we're still going because we love it so much

And thank you so much for all of your support. And Samantha, we're also hitting the TikTok hard the past couple of weeks

We're hitting the TikTok. that our tiktok handle as it's the same as our instagram so it'll be super easy for you guys

survival jobs pod at survival jobs pod on the talk on the tick ticky talk

ticky talk talk ticky talk talk awesome