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Steven Levenson Talks TICK, TICK...BOOM! Movie on Backstage with Richard Ridge
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Oct 26, 2022
After over three decades since its inception and two since its premiere off-Broadway, tick, tick...BOOM! has finally found its way to the big screen. The autobiographical musical by Jonathan Larson arrives in movie theaters today, November 12, ahead of its release next week on Netflix. One of the the artists who made it happen was screenwriter (and Tony winner) Steven Levenson.
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0:00
Welcome to Backstage with Richard Ridge
0:03
One of the most eagerly awaited new films is Jonathan Larson's Tick-Tick Boom
0:07
which stars Andrew Garfield as Larson. It is directed by Hamilton creator Lynn Manuel Miranda
0:14
and please welcome my guest, the film's screenwriter, Tony Award winner, Stephen Levinson
0:21
Hey, I'm so happy to be here. Stephen, how are you, my friend? I'm doing very well
0:27
Perfect. I want to tell you, the film is absolutely. sensational. Oh, thank you so much. I'm so so happy to hear that. You know, when were you first
0:35
aware of Jonathan's musical and why did you connect to it so? I was actually in a former life
0:43
in college, I was in a production of Tick, Tick, Boom, that two friends and I put on
0:49
one of my friends was just really excited about the show and said, well, why don't we do like
0:54
a little production in an upstairs space of the student theater? So
1:00
So I've known about the show for since at least then, basically
1:04
Rent was, as for so many people, Rent was for me a transformative event in my life
1:10
It was something, it was a show I saw as a teenager and just utterly transformed my relationship to theater and my desire to be a part of theater
1:20
It was the thing that made me go, I think I want to do this in some capacity
1:26
And so Tick-Tick-Bomb was an extension of that and always felt to me
1:29
like it deserved more recognition than it had and deserved more visibility because
1:37
first of all, the score is absolutely incredible. And second of all, the story to me was always so compelling of this young person who's
1:47
not so young anymore, who's looking at his life and wondering, do I keep going
1:51
Do I keep trying to do this thing that everyone is telling me to stop doing
1:55
The whole universe is screaming at me that this is never going to happen. do I persist in this dream or do I give into reality and take the easy road
2:05
And that to me is, I mean, that's a struggle we all face daily for some of us
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So I loved this story from the first time I heard it
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You know, I'm sure that's what has connected you and Lynn because you're all creators
2:21
and you always think, oh my God, is this the only project I'm going to write
2:25
Is anyone ever going to look at this project? I'm sure that goes through your mind all the time
2:29
Absolutely. And the thing that I love more than anything about Tick-Tick-Bomb is that, you know
2:34
most stories of artists are stories of triumphs. They're about, you know, there are obstacles along the way
2:40
but in the end, this incredible achievement is reached. And Tick-T-T-T-Boom is the story of a failure
2:46
It's the story of a heartbreak. It's a story of Superbia, which is this musical that Jonathan worked on for eight years
2:51
that ultimately really went nowhere. It just never happened. It never came together
2:56
And to me, that's kind of the truest story you can tell about an artist
3:01
You know, if you read any biography of an artist, I think what you're struck by
3:05
or what I'm certainly struck by are all the projects that never happen. All of the things that get started and left behind and never work out
3:12
And that's part of the process too. That's part of what it is. And it really was only out of that catastrophe of Superbia not working
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I think that John was able to realize. that what he really wanted to do
3:27
was tell stories that were closer to his heart and stories that were closer to the world
3:31
that was happening around him in 1990s, New York, and ultimately, rent came out of that
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Yeah. Well, would you talk a little bit about the process of how you and Limel Miranda
3:41
researched how you wanted to tell the story in the film? Because this is fast
3:46
You go into the library? Like, what did you guys? Yeah. Well, so we went to the Library of Congress
3:50
with Jennifer Tepper, who's an amazing theater historian and knows everything about Jonathan Larson
3:56
and had been to the archives many times. And so it was kind of our guide through the archives
4:02
at the Library of Congress and Jonathan's papers. And basically, you know, there is no definitive tick-tick-boom scripts
4:11
It was a rock monologue that he performed in his life. It was called Boho Days at one point
4:16
It was called Tick-Tick-Bum at another. And it was never formally produced ever
4:22
There were some self-productions of it. And so there were a number of just
4:26
disparate drafts there with small and large changes between them and no dates. There was no
4:32
sense of which had come first and which came after. So we really just took all of those drafts
4:38
made copies of them, and then came home, and I just read them and reread them, and tried to
4:44
pick out the thread of what really felt like it was essential to the story, what felt like
4:50
oh, I kind of see why that went away. And also to look a lot at the score and what were
4:56
songs and most of the songs stayed the same, but there were certain songs that came in and out
5:01
and that was really fascinating. And then the other thing was looking at Superbia, which was this
5:06
musical that really was difficult to figure out what the draft of, because there were so many
5:12
drafts over eight years, you can imagine, and it changed drastically over that time. And so
5:17
it's trying to figure out, well, what version of that are we going to have in our film? But it was
5:22
really fun, like, detective work. And putting that all together. and then figuring out, well, how are we going to expand this into a film
5:30
How are we going to make this cinematic? And how are we going to tell a two-hour story and not a 55-minute story
5:37
Yeah, because you also laid out the songs on a white board, didn't you
5:41
That's right. Yes, that was something we did. That was one of the first things we did is we put out all the songs on note cards
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And the same as you would do with any kind of like a jukebox musical
5:52
It's like, this is our score. How are we going to make this work? and we had the skeleton of the story that John left
5:59
But it's such a powerful score. Like any great score, it tells a story all on its own
6:04
You can track the threat of it. So it was really figuring out how are we going to get all of these songs in And then there were more songs we wanted to get in and how are we going to get those in And it was a lot the joy of it was oh my God we have this incredible score by Jonathan Larson
6:21
How can we get all of this music in there in the most compelling way possible
6:26
See, I just love this because this is not just the musical of Tick, Tick, Boom
6:30
This is the story of Jonathan Larson's life that you're telling you built
6:34
Absolutely. And, you know, Jonathan's version of it was autobiographical for sure
6:38
sure, but he didn't have the perspective that we have, of course
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He was telling his story as it was happening, and we get to look back
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And the things that I think weren't particularly interesting to Jonathan, because they were
6:51
just his life, in hindsight, I'm certainly fascinated by. I want to know the minutia of Jonathan Larson's life
6:58
So we got to really dig into that stuff and add the things that he didn't necessarily
7:03
think were significant. and to add, it was really important to us
7:08
something that came out in everyone we talked to. A lot of the research was talking to his friends
7:13
and his collaborators, of which there are many. And the thing that came through in everyone we spoke to
7:19
was there was a certain extravagance about Jonathan always, an extravagance of spirit and a generosity
7:26
And he always threw huge lavish parties for his friends, even though he had no money
7:32
Everything had to have a sense of occasion. There were always tablecloths. That was a big thing
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Like there was never just a dinner party. There had to be a tablecloth. There had to be candles. We wanted to get that feeling across as much as we could
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that this was someone who lived life to the fullest. And in a big way, and whatever money he had, he spent
7:50
And whatever time he had, he gave to his friends. And that was something that wasn't necessarily part of his version of his story
7:58
because I don't think he could see that about himself. But we certainly could. And that was really exciting for us
8:03
See, that's what I loved at that. it's almost like he knew subconsciously that he had a short amount of time here to do what he
8:11
wanted to achieve. He did have this, I mean, you know, it's sort of like, well, we didn't come up
8:16
with the title Tick, tick, boom. You know what I mean? Even though it seems like in hindsight
8:21
that's what you would call it. Like that was, he was obsessed with the idea of running out of time
8:25
He was obsessed with the idea of wondering whether he would have enough time to accomplish all
8:31
that he wanted to. And it is hard not to think that he did have some sense on some level that
8:38
his time was finite. And sometimes, though, the way I think about it is that he knew what we all
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know, which is that all of our time is finite. And whether you get 35 years or 85 years
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you know, that time is precious. And that was something that clearly, you know, I don't want to
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say haunted him because I think it also energized him. Interesting. Collaboration
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are really special. Talk about your collaboration with Lynn Manuel on this project
9:06
Well, I mean, working with Lynn was a dream come true from the very beginning. And Lynn has
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so much in common with Jonathan and not just in the superficial ways that they're both, you know
9:15
geniuses who have reshaped musical theater. But they're both that sense of extravagance and
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that sense of exuberance. I mean, that is Lynn to a T. Lynn is just filled with passion and
9:29
enthusiasm and love. And that's what guides him. That's, that is the North Star for him
9:34
is what do I love? What am I passionate about? And so the process was filled with joy because of that
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It was really, it was just following what we loved and what we were excited about what we wanted to
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see. And it never felt like a chore. And it always felt incredibly meaningful. And Lynn also has a
9:54
real sense of impossibility. You know, there were things that we talked about at the very beginning of this process
10:03
you know, these sequences in his head and in my head that I thought, well, eventually
10:08
we're going to have to cut those down. They're not really going to let us do that. And Lynn, you know, they happen
10:15
Like Lynn figures out a way to make it happen. And Lynn sticks to that vision and there's a tenacity there
10:22
but also an incredible graciousness. And I think when we came back from COVID
10:28
we shot 10 days and then we took many months off and it wasn't clear what was going to happen with the film
10:34
When we came back, it was obviously a very different world. But because of Lynn, I think, and his spirit and his enthusiasm
10:43
there was such a cohesiveness among the crew and the cast and such a feeling of we're in this together
10:49
and we're doing this incredibly important thing. and there was not a single positive COVID case
10:55
the entire production for us, which was remarkable, and just a testament to the fact
11:00
that everybody was so determined to make this work and to be there for each other
11:06
And that was really powerful. Okay. One of the most amazing casts ever in a film
11:13
I mean, I sat there in the room. We were all hyperventilating
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when we saw all these theater alumni, I'm not giving anything away
11:22
Yes. So many special treats in this. Absolutely. But again, yes, that's Lynn
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Lynn is just like, that's what I want to see. Lynn talks about how he was one of the people in high school
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I think, at the Zigfeld Theater at midnight for the Chicago, the opening of the Chicago film
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And like that, and he talks about seeing Cheetah Rivera when she came on the screen
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and the theater going nuts. And like, he wants that experience for all of us
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And so again, that was another thing where Lynn said we're going to get this person
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and this person and this person. I said, okay, I'm sure we'll start there and let's see where we go
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And, you know, partly because it's Lynn and people are desperate to work with him
12:02
Like, we got those people. And yeah, it was just, I mean
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the theater nerd in me was geeking out, I mean, every second of working on this film
12:14
We had goosebumps watching this film from the second it began till the second hour
12:18
This is a story. for everybody though. This is not just theater people but theater people will absolutely this will blow their minds Absolutely Well I feel like these things have to be you know it sort of like a medical drama
12:32
If you do ER, if doctors watch that and don't feel like real, it's not going to be real
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And it's sort of like, like this has to feel to the people in this community in this world, it has to feel authentic
12:42
And hopefully if it does, then people that don't know anything about it will also feel that authenticity and that love
12:47
even if they don't necessarily, you know, get every single reference. Okay, Andrew Garfield
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I know he also loved this musical. This is a big pet project for him
12:57
Yes. When you knew that he was connected to this, when you were writing or fixing the screenplay
13:04
do you have Andrew's thoughts in mind? Like, he's so great. I knew Jonathan, and yet you look at Andrew
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I'm like, oh, my God, it's not Andrew Garfield anymore. I know. It's, I mean, it was remarkable
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And one of the great things also of working with Lynn is that, you know
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from the beginning, he said, I don't really know how to make a movie, but I know how to make a
13:25
musical, and this is how you do it. And we did workshops. We did, I think, three or four
13:29
week-long workshops, just like you would do a Broadway musical. And so I got to work really
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closely with Andrew and all the other actors and crafting these scenes and crafting these arcs
13:39
which did then I got to go home with their voices in my head as I was rewriting. And, I mean
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Andrew was just a marvel from the very beginning. And, but the thing was like, in the very
13:51
first reading was sort of like, Andrew Garfield's going to do this. That's amazing, but he doesn't
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sing. That was the thing. He doesn't, he doesn't sing he's not a singer. Maybe he can carry a tune
14:00
was sort of what he said about himself. You know, and then to watch as over a year, he not only
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emerged as a singer, but like a world class vocalist was just amazing. I mean, he just, you know
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I knew that he was an amazing actor. I knew all of that. But I don't think he knew
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that he was this insane singer. And that was such a cool thing to watch unfold
14:28
There is nothing Andrew Garfield cannot do. Apparently not. Yes, no, I am a total believer
14:35
I cannot wait for him to come to Broadway in a Broadway music. I know
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Yes, I know. Well, that's, I feel like that's the next challenge. It's also, it's like, you know
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I think it is a little bit like a drug. And it's like once you've done it, I don't know if you can go back
14:48
Yeah. I'm sure there were so many magical days. on the set for you
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Would you share one with our Broadway world audience, like maybe one of the filming days
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when you were like, this was absolutely like incredible, besides all of them? Well, I will say the day
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and it was before COVID, we were shooting in Central Park. And we just did that whole day
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of things in Central Park. It's from John's monologue of him running through Central Park
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and going to the Delacourt Theater and finding a piano there and playing
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And it was really early on, I want to say it was our second in our third day of shooting
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And Andrew sang live. He sang most of the takes were him singing live
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And getting to be there in the Delacourt Theater empty at night, watching Andrew Garfields
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sing this haunting, incredible song that I think sums up so much of how we all feel about making art
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or being part of art, which is, you know, what a way to spend a day
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is this refrain. That was incredibly special. And that felt like, oh, my God, how lucky are we to be here watching this and being a part of this
16:00
You know, it's interesting because there are so many beautiful, like, New York City, like, oh, my God, the Delacourt Theater, you know, the diners downtown
16:09
Yeah. Also an homage to that time period in New York City when you could still be a bohemian
16:15
I got in, like, 1978, I came to New York, 77. Oh, wow
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And it was such a free time. You made enough money to survive
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and live in an apartment and create art. Yeah. It was so wonderful to sit and say
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oh my gosh, I remember that time. I know. That was a real joy
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It was to get to recreate a New York that, frankly, I didn't know, or I know so much of what I
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my imagination of New York is from seeing rent as a kid and being like, well, that's New York and that's what I
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getting to recreate that world in our production designer, Alex D. Orlando, who also
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I worked with on Fosse Verdon is just, I mean, he's just insane
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And he built this world with such care and authenticity and getting to recreate
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Times Square from 1990. Like all of that was so fun. And getting to revisit this world that frankly, as you said, doesn't really exist anymore
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Not in the same way, at least. It all looks so real to me. And I remember this stuff so vividly
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I'm like, I don't know. Oh, that's great. But I'm like, whatever world that is, I want to live in it
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I know. So, yes. Well, you know, we have a few more minutes left
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You know, we have so many theater fans, you know, watching here at Broadway World
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You talked about Fossi Verdon. I knew Gwen really well. I didn't know Bacrundt really, really well
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That was so special for me to watch that whole entire show
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Because I saw the husband Prest and he'd be like, Richard, who's that? And like, that's so-and-so, that's so-and-so
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That's Neil Simon's White Joan. Yeah, right, right. I mean, down to the little detail
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favorite memory of working on Fossey Verdon for you was what? Boy, there were many
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You know, I think of our first day of shooting, I have to say, where it was, we were shooting
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Majorca, we were shooting Long Island for Majorca. It was October 31st in Long Island
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It was freezing cold. The first scene that we shot was about how hot it was in Majorca
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and we were shooting on the beach. But I just remember Michelle Williams coming out for the first time
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me seeing her for the first time in the costume, in character
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and just wondering where did Michelle go and when Burton get on set
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And it was just, and then Sam was in the next scene and it was like
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well where did Sam go And it just that was when I knew oh my goodness we have something incredibly special here I just couldn believe the commitment and the just the transparency of those performances
18:47
They just dissolved into these people. You know, it was such a joy. Brilliant, that whole series
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you did. Oh, thank you so much. But now, Jeremy Hanson, wonderful, the film
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favorite moment of like adapting your Tony Award-winning book from the show into the
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screenplay. Oh, it was, you know, that was another really fun and exciting process. I mean
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I think probably the most fun part of it because it was different and brand new and felt like
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was getting to work with Amanda Lindbergh in creating that new song that she sings in the film
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anonymous ones with Benj and Justin, which I only got to be involved with tangentially
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but essentially, you know, zooming in the pandemic talking, as Benj and I, Benj and Justin and I have done many
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times of what is the song, how is it going to work, and getting to add a new voice to that
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conversation was really exciting and really energizing and just different. It was really cool
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One of my final questions is, how excited are you to be writing the new screenplay for the remake
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of Fiddler on the Root with director Tommy Kale? I mean, I couldn't be more excited
19:57
Speaking of Fosci Verdon, you know, Tommy, that's, Tommy is just amazing. I love, I love working
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with Tommy. And again, all of these, I think that the common thread with all of these projects is just
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our love for these stories and this material and these worlds. And Fiddle on the Roof is no
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exception where it's just, I love this story so much. It means so much to me. It means so much to
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Tommy. And it's just, I feel like a kid in a toy store getting to revisit this world and getting
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to reimagine it. And also trying to be very, very careful to preserve everything about it that's
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amazing and that we all love. Well, that was the first Broadway show that I saw. I remember
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everything about that Saturday afternoon, seeing Harry Gause's Tebvia at the Majestic Theater
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Oh, my God. I can vividly bring that back. When I saw that you were connected to this
20:47
I was like, oh, my God, Stephen Levison is perfect for this. Oh, thank you. Perfect. So my final
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question is, what do you hope audiences walk away with after seeing Tick, Tick, Boom
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You know, I hope they feel what I feel in watching the film and in hearing the story
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which is inspired to make something of their own and to create something of their own
21:10
and to and to follow their dreams. As cheesy as that sounds, it's a cliche for a reason
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And the fact that, you know, something that is really remarkable to me is that the character
21:25
or the real person that the character of Susan is based on, Janet Charleston, who was John's on-again, off-again girlfriend
21:35
We met her in the course of making this film, and she's still dancing
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She's still dancing every day. She's living in the same apartment she was living in
21:43
all those years ago in the East Village. She's still doing it. And that, to me, is, I don't know
21:49
I found that so inspiring. That, you know, this is a story of those moments
21:53
where it does feel like quitting, and it does feel like it would be easier to give in
21:57
And it's so remarkable to me that people don't. And I hope that it gives people some of that inspiration as well
22:06
I think it will, no matter what feel they're in or just as human beings
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it gives you that you walk out of that film and you feel, oh, my God, I want to achieve certain things in my life
22:17
It just moves you forward down now. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much
22:22
Well, like I said, Tick, Tick, Boom will be released on November. 12th in theaters and begin streaming on Netflix on November 19th
22:29
Steven, thank you for dropping by and chatting with me today. Oh, thank you. This was such a pleasure as always
22:33
Hello. Hi, welcome
22:46
I'm Jonathan Larson. I am 29 years old. I work at the Moondance Diner
22:53
Kank one sec Do we take reservations? No we do not take
22:57
We're a diner I have an original rock musical Hey boy, genius
23:04
And I have spent the last eight years of my life writing
23:08
Getting out, you're gonna be rich and famous And rewriting Is you crack a yet? Oh, I'm getting so close
23:14
And rewriting Can I hear it? Any day now Eight years And the time keeps to Tick-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k
23:26
You need to ask, are you letting yourself be led by fear or by love
23:31
Fear, 100% fear. I don't know what the show is. Why do we play with fire
23:44
What if the workshop happens and nothing changes? What then, Jonathan? Maybe I'm just wasting my time
23:52
Do you know how many Jonathan Larson's there are? One. Why should we raise a trail
24:00
There's not enough time. I went to three friends' funerals last year
24:05
And nobody is doing enough. I'm not doing enough. Try writing about what you know
24:13
What does it take to wake up a generation? It would be a tragedy to give up what you have
24:22
Fear or love, baby, don't say the answer. Actions speak louder than
24:30
No matter what. Keep going
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