HAMILTON's Jennie Harney-Fleming is On the Rise!

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of On The Rise with Candice Cordelia, a Broadway

World production. Today, we are talking with such a special woman. She is super busy, as

a lot of us are, but she's doing so much within the art scene. You may have recognized her

on Broadway and she's currently taking over the role of Angelica full-time on Hamilton and she's

also a Broadway mom so we're going to talk to her about what it's like both being an actress a mom

and just an all-around wonderful person. Please welcome to our show Jenny Harney Fleming

Hi Jenny. Hi Candice. Thank you so much for having me on the show today

Oh my goodness thank you. You know I understand you're super busy and right before we started

talking, you were mentioning your baby. So thank you for taking the time out because we understand

there's so much happening in your world, but it's an honor to meet you and I can't wait to talk with

you. Thank you. Likewise. You're so welcome. So let's just start right at the beginning. I understand

that you are a native New Yorker and so many of us who aren't from New York, we tend to romanticize

New York City and what it was growing up in the Big Apple. So talk to us just about what it was

like growing up in Brooklyn and how your environment really shaped who you are as a performer

Yeah, I was born and raised in New York City, Brooklyn Hospital. And it's been a really

interesting experience. And you don't realize, I mean, home is home for anybody. And you don't

realize the things that make home what it is until you have other experiences. And for me

home meant, you know, I was right. You know, I went to Times Square Church when I was growing up

So I literally went to church in the epicenter of the arts and didn't have a clue, didn't realize

how much access I had to, you know, such a unique world. And I went to high school at LaGuardia

high school. I went to junior high school at 113 in Brooklyn, which was also an arts junior high

school. Like how many arts junior high schools really are here, you know? And just to always be

around like-minded people or people who understood the arts with such a depth and diverse background

that was like the most incredible experience growing up in New York. And, you know, I mean

And of course, I mean, I grew up in Brooklyn, so you got a lot of stuff going on in the

neighborhoods and things like that. So at the time, my neighborhood wasn't the friendliest

It wasn't horrible, but it wasn't no walking apart. And you grow up with a lot of different personalities and a lot of different instincts, a lot of

street savvy that you have to have, you know, riding on the subway by yourself when you're

like 12 and 13. And, you know, growing up, there's this enormous homeless shelter that's on Atlantic Avenue

not too far from my house. And so we would, when we would drive in the car, we would drive past and see, you know

homelessness and stuff like that on display. And, you know, it's just, it's very different when you get older and you learn, like, what

life is in other places that you realize like, wow, this is a really, this must be a really

shocking experience with people who are from here. You know what I mean? And how desensitized you

you are growing up in a place like this, where there's so much stuff going on all around you

all the time. So it's been quite a blessing to be exposed, but it's also been something that

I've had to, you know, relearn about the world, you know, outside of my experience here. So

Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned not long ago, not long ago, LaGuardia High School, which a lot of people also romanticize

I know I did growing up. First thing people think of is fame. That's the famous school

And you look into the history and it's so famous because so many wonderful performers such as yourself have come out of that school

So talk to us about what it was like going to school at LaGuardia and how that experience also shaped you

Yeah, LaGuardia was an incredible experience. It really was. You go to a school that is so huge

so enormous, just in size, let alone just the building itself was enormous. You could just get

lost in there. And you had, each department had a different floor. So there was the arts

fine arts floor. There was the dance floor. There was the vocal and music floor. I mean

I think some of them are combined, you know what I'm saying? But they all had their places where

but you would find that cluster of people. And then you had the dramatic arts

and of course you had the vocal department and you had the theater department

and you had, which at the time when I was there was a pretty small department

And most of the people that went into the theater productions were like from the acting department

And then you had the instrumentalists and then you had way down in the basement

you had recording studios, You had, you know, private rooms that have pianos

And so like when I think about it as an adult, I'm like, wow, we had so much access to so many wonderful things

We had no idea. I had no idea. I mean, I did. But I mean, you know, it was the kind of thing where it was those places became places of retreat as opposed to really understanding like the full breadth of capability that you had in that with those resources that you had access to

So it really was a unique and amazing experience because you're immersed in people who are about their art every day

You know what I mean? Like you walk past any classroom and you just see so much inspiration there

And I mean, it's still a high school experience. So there's so much still going on inside of you as a growing, changing human, trying to figure out who you are and what you want and what you like and what you don't like and what's happening in your body and all these crazy things that happen in high school

or just layered on top of, you know, walking past and seeing somebody paint something incredible

or walking past and seeing somebody working on their pirouettes. So that was awesome

I started out at LaGuardia in the dance department. The first year I was a dance major, and I couldn't take the heat

I couldn't take the heat. I had to get out of there. So I went over and I switched to the vocal department

And that's where I stayed and graduated from the vocal department. Wow. When you first saw the movie Fame, were you thinking, oh, my gosh, this is exactly how it is

Or did you think some things were a bit more exaggerated for the effect of the movie

I think I think it captured a lot of the energy of the school in that, like, you know, at any point you would see kids cutting in the escalator

But when there's cutting in a certain area of the school, they're usually writing music

You know what I mean? It's like I'm cutting math so that I can write this off. You know what I mean? So there was definitely that inspired energy, that fight that we had within us that I recognized

that was displayed in the movie. But of course, like going out and dancing on taxi cabs, nobody's really doing it

You know what I'm saying? We can only hope or dream. I mean, it's New York City. As you know, anything can happen. So if that were to happen, people wouldn't even give it a second glance

I mean, I'm sure we've all seen some crazy stuff in New York City. Exactly

I wouldn't be such a surprise. Absolutely. So another thing about your background that's very fascinating and some can relate and others wouldn't be able to is one of your parents, Ben Harney, is also a performer

you know, originated a role, very famous role in Dreamgirls on Broadway. What was that like

you know, going to LaGuardia and having a father who was also a performer? Did you find that

there was double pressure for you? Or did you think that, no, this is just my normal everyday

life? Kind of a little bit of both. My father also went to the fame school before it moved to

this building. What it was before, which was music and arts high school. I think it was up in like

the Bronx or something like that. I can't remember the exact location, but it didn't always used to be

on 61st or whatever street it's on right now, 60th or whatever. It was previously in another

building and it was actually two separate buildings that held the different departments

And then eventually they moved downtown So that was part of my incentive to want to go because I always felt like which I think a lot of people do not everybody but an inclination to like follow your your parents path a little bit and you know

romanticizing their lives. And of course, in this instance, that is not a difficult thing to do. But my dad

he had already stopped performing on Broadway by the time that I came

My other siblings were around for that portion of his career. But he made the decision that he wanted to focus on ministry and focus on his family in a different way, which was what prompted him to move on

And even still in that, he was still doing the arts. He's taught me the arts

You know, I grew up, we were doing, you know, productions and putting on shows in our house

Like we had a full on theater in our house that we would invite people to come and see shows

And but we still, you know, he was leading the youth department at our churches and, you know, putting on theater productions there

So those are the experience that really, really, really, really shaped the artist who I am today

and like my father never pressured any of us to do VR you know what I mean I didn't have that

experience it was always very much so like if this is where you if this is where you feel inclined

to do you know this is what you want to do we support you wholeheartedly if you decide to do

something else we support you wholeheartedly so I never felt pressure in that way inside of our

home, there were always outside pressures of expectation. You know what I mean? When you got

to a place and people found out, oh, you're related to so-and-so. So that means X, Y, and Z. And then

they put all this stuff on you, you know, which is always, has always been a challenging experience

and took a long time for me to figure out the balance of the blessing in that. You know what

I mean? Because for a while, just, you know, especially as you're a kid and you're figuring out who you are, it feels more like a weight and a responsibility than it does like something to

really like be excited about, you know? Um, so that was, that was definitely a double-sided

kind of juggle, you know, in terms of making the decision to pursue the arts, um, with, with that

added bonus, you know, but it's been, it's really, truly been such a unique and special experience

And I think the opportunity to have that and shape that part of myself with my dad in the church in a

very different environment really got, was an opportunity to foster some other things inside of me that have really

helped me be clear minded in my career, you know? Lovely. Thank you so much for sharing

Yeah. And all of your hard work, your talent and your hutspah has now led you to being on

Broadway in such a fantastic role. When you found out that this was going to take place, I mean, what were your thoughts? And especially now that we are entering a new era, not just on Broadway, but just in the world, you know, still dealing with this pandemic

Yeah, sure. You know, I started off in 2017 as a Universal Schuyler sister. And what that means is basically I covered all three sisters in any of the United States productions

So at the time, there were four different productions. It was Broadway, Chicago, and the first and second national tour. And at any given moment, I would just get a call on a Saturday at 10 a.m. and I'd be on a flight at 7 p.m. or 3 p.m. sometimes

Like sometimes the turnaround was just that fast. Like the day of, I had to have a bad pact and be gone for an indefinite period of time for whatever to meet whatever the need is in another company, which was very challenging because every company has a different set

Every company has its own vibe, its own nuances, its own, you know, they've embraced the show in their own way as they should, as they should

But that meant you had to get there, meet people for the first time and get on stage, act like you've known them for your entire lives

And then, you know, be familiar enough with the material, but flexible enough to adjust and, you know, flex and flow, go with the flow with whatever

nope you know and and we have a phrase in the theater of shove with love you know what I mean

no shove but you know what I'm saying it's like it's kind of like yeah help me along a little bit

give me a little guidance so I don't get trampled you know stuff like that um and so I did that from

2017 to 2019 I think it was around maybe I can't remember if it was January April somewhere in that

the beginning of 2019 when I switched over to performing exclusively with the Broadway company

as a standby. By that time, I had gotten married. And so the inclination of the desire to kind of

like settle down and, you know, fight for my personal life, because I feel like a lot of times

in this industry, you feel like you have to choose between your life and your professional life. And

And while that is still very much so an energy in the industry, I feel like we're starting to move into the place where that doesn't have to be, especially after this pandemic

And I stayed with the show until I got pregnant with my first daughter in August

And then I took my first maternity leave January 2020. And we had no idea that the pandemic was coming

And during the pandemic, I had my second daughter and then came back to, I actually was invited back to rehearsals with the cast

They were so gracious to invite me back, even though I was seven months pregnant, girl

I was seven months pregnant. I'm coming up in here doing this choreography. Bless

Oh, my goodness. Oh, God. But, you know, I went on a second maternity leave, had my second daughter and came back about four months postpartum to the Skyler Sister Standby on Broadway again

And, you know, I think, like you said, like between COVID and just what's happening in the world today, like just there's the theater community is still finding its legs

It's still kind of resettling. And I think with that, people are making different decisions. People are trying to realign their trajectory for themselves and their career and moving things, doing things differently than they would have prior to the pandemic

different decisions you know having different priorities and value systems like I really feel

like the pandemic served as a reality check for a lot of us who have this like hustle mentality of

like I gotta you know get to the top and by this year I'm gonna make an original Broadway role and

this year I'm gonna win a county award like all of this pressure that we put on ourselves I think

kind of started to, we started to release the steam from the lid a little bit during the pandemic

and really have to look at life and look at our priorities, reassess, you know, what we're doing

and what we want. And I think as a result of that, that made people make different decisions

than they probably would have before. And now, you know, an opportunity opened up for me to step up

into the role, you know, after, if you include the pandemic, five years of, of working for the

company. And, um, it's just, it's truly been, they, they've really done a wonderful job. They've

taken such wonderful care of my, of me and my family. And, you know, um, and I love the show

I love my job. I love stepping up into this place, you know, especially after being a standby for

five years gives you the opportunity to, you know, put your stamp on something and own something in a

different way than when you're a standby, because you kind of have to have this release, this kind of

like, you know, you can't get attached as a standby in a way, you know, and so this opportunity to just

make something your own you know on Sunday Mandy's last day she said something to me

before right before I left her her her um celebration she looked at me she said take it just get out there and just take it And she just so wonderful But it just you know giving yourself permission to really do what you do best and step into your power in a way

And I think that that, the long answer, that's the long answer to your question

But the short answer is, you know, the stepping into your power is really what, especially in a role as iconic as this, you know, to be the third Angelica on Broadway is just, it's just an incredible feeling, you know

Oh, we love a long answer here. So don't ever apologize. That's what we want

But we also love the fact that you're so candid about this because it is an important topic, especially as you stated, the world is changing and people's perception about success and what it means to live a full life has changed a lot as well

And now you have two children and working on Broadway. I also understand you were profiled in Essence magazine with several other Broadway moms talking about this topic and just how significant it is

You know, being a working mom, were there some things that you anticipated just based on even perhaps seeing other moms trying to juggle work and life as a performer as well as having children versus were there things that you completely were just taken aback from that you had no idea you would have to, you know, experience as time went on with this? Sure

I think that's kind of, it's all about your anticipation of trajectory for me, that my experience was, you know

I don't know if, I don't know how much the pandemic had to do with this particular thought process

But, you know, when I got back to work, even though I knew, like, things are going to be different, you got to slow down, you got to think differently, like, things are different, like, adjust accordingly

when I got back to work I still had this like ticking clock in the back of my head saying okay

you gotta get this goal accomplished by this time and you should be working toward this and

you know what I mean in terms of my trajectory and at some point I think I had had like two

terrible in-person auditions I'm like I'm just not good at auditioning terrible ah you know I'm not

I'm not ready. And my friend, a very good friend of mine was like, look, girl, you have to you can't have the same goals as you did before you became a mom

Like you've got to realign. You've got to manage your expectations. It's the same thing, you know, career wise is what we have had to learn to do as mothers in a day

Like, I cannot expect to get the laundry done, the dishes done, you know, all the kids fed and bathed and, you know, read 17 books and gone outside to the playground and the dog walked

I can't expect, you know, to get everything on my to do list done

You know what I mean? When you become a mom, you got to say we ain't getting everything done every day

We're going to get what we get done when we get it done. And sometimes it's just going to be a mess

I'm sorry. It's just what it is. And I think that that's really the biggest thing that I've had to learn how to embrace is that like manage my expectations of myself, give myself grace

And also like the goals I have, the goals, I can't set the same goals

They're not realistic because the reality is your time is not the same

Your time is not the same. And you have to, it's going to make a lot of people mad, you know, and some rightfully so

and others not so much but you have to manage your expectations of yourself and expectations

of other people give yourself grace and um what was the other thing i was going to say um

set your boundaries always setting your boundaries figuring out what that means

because they're new. But really, you have to be, learn how to be present wherever you are

You have to learn how to be present wherever you are. So that means when I get to work

I'm at work. Whatever has happening at home, as much as I'll check in on those things

I can't, my mind can't be there when I'm at work, when I'm at home, I am at home. I'm not thinking

about work. You know what I'm saying? I got to be with my babies. I need to be investing my time and

my energy with, you know, my children, making sure they feel like I'm present. I can't be on my phone

You know, I can't be distracted. I can't be, you know, I have to set aside time. I have to treat

my time differently, you know, um, be extremely intentional about it. And, you know, and even when

you do that, things are still a mess. Things are still crazy. You still ain't packed the diaper bag

You know, you're still scrambling. You're still like, oh crap, we're out of diapers. Oh, we're out

of food. Oh, we're out of wipes. Oh, we're out of, we're out of, you know what I mean? There's still

these things that you miss, but you still have to everyday commit to be 100%. I'm here with my

babies right now. I'm walking out the door. I love you so much. I figured out whatever the system is

for how you're being taken care of when I'm not here. And when I close that door, I got to

shift to a different mindset. And sometimes that social element doesn't get fed. And sometimes

that self-care element doesn't happen. And that's why a support system is so important

because you have to have people that help you to advocate for you, you know, in those times

and in those spaces. Like, I'm not thinking about, oh, I didn't call

I didn't text so-and-so back. Oh, shoot. You know, so-and-so called. I'm not thinking about it

I can't because when I opened the text, so-and-so had a blowout

And so I got to go and change a diaper and clean up this. You know what I'm saying

And so it really is about having a support system that understands and figuring out your system at home

your ecosystem at home, your weights and balances at home, so that when you leave, you can know that

everything is taken care of at home. 1000%. And for what you're doing now on Broadway

role of Angelica full time, you're absolutely right. You need that support system and you need

to be able to be laser focused. And having said that, I definitely want to dive in a little bit

into Hamilton, which has been such a popular show. I mean, it's even now 2022, it's still hard to get

tickets. People are waiting to see the show. And I'm sure now with the role that you're taking up

in the show, people are really going to be heading to see how they can get a ticket to see this. So

once again, congratulations. One question that I wanted to ask you, and I will ask you obviously

now is how familiar were you with the history before the show? I didn't know nothing about

I didn't know anything about these people. I had to research it, you know, once I was called in to

do the show or called in to, to audition for the show, because that's really where your research

starts. Right. Um, and just digging up, you know, information. And of course, by the time that I

you know, in 2016, the show had been out for a little while, you know, it was all the raves

So there was all this information that we now have access to. And, you know, and as much as you read and you dig into those things and you familiarize yourself with tidbits and information about these individuals and you create this human from the things that you grow to understand and also base it off of the material that's in the show, you know

because of course there is some, it's, the material is elevating things that are, you know

happening in the past, you know what I mean? And putting a perspective and a spin on things

to heighten it and, and focus on different points. So where, you know, we get to see little

glimpses of who Angelica is in terms of her being such a scholar and being so

and so brain smart and so headstrong. I have to take on the spin of her now being somebody who raps and somebody who you know talks in a certain way or has a certain vernacular or has a certain lift or a little to herself

Then there's the other part of like bringing who I am, the part of me that is closest to her to the stage every night and making it her a fully fleshed out human being on my body

You know what I mean? Yes. So it's so many layers to when you're building a character and how you use the foundation of the history and the research

And then you layer on top of it, like, okay, the information from here, what I know about myself, what are my strengths, you know

and who are the people in my world and in my life who remind me of this character, you know what I mean

Who has inspired me in a way that this woman also inspires others

You know, I'm a little sister. I'm the youngest sister of four. And so to take on the role of big sister is a very different energy

But also, like, I have two sisters. So there is an element of understanding what it is to have a dichotomy of relationship or a diverse relationship from sister to sister or sibling to sibling

Um, so I think it is a layered experience in that, you know, you have research, you have personal experience and you have the material of the show that you kind of like mush together and figure it out, you know

Thank you for mentioning sisterhood because another question I had for you, and thank you for breaking down the fact that you are the youngest of sisters

That's such a huge jump, as you stated, to being a real life younger sister to playing a big sister

There's different parallels in the relationships that happen. And what are the new things that you learned about sisterhood being a part of this show that you didn't know or perhaps you were just not cognizant of, you know, growing up with your sisters and now you're in Hamilton and you're thinking, oh, this is something new and valuable that I'm learning about what it means to be a sister

Yeah. I think it's about unspoken sacrifice, you know, a certain kind of like watching and adjusting accordingly

Like that's the biggest thing or the biggest feature about Angelica in terms of like the song Satisfied is that I know that this decision will impact the rest of my life and my happiness for the rest of my life

But because I love my sister to this degree, I'm unwilling to make any other choice

You know what I mean? and, you know, that regret and that remorse and that, you know, anxiety that can come into play

but all the while keeping this facade of keeping it together. And you know what I mean? And that

something like that can go on for years and the younger sister be completely oblivious

There's so many things I was oblivious to as a child that I grew up and learned about my sisters

and my brother that, you know, it made me have to re-look, re-examine situations, shift

my perspective on things from the past and what impacted me and why it impacted me the

way that it did. And realizing, oh, this is what was happening in that moment and you

were protecting me, you know? I think that that is probably the biggest thing that I've

learned from playing this role or learning this role. it's very profound that you're in this show at this particular point in your life because as

we're talking I'm noticing the parallels you know we've talked about just your background growing up

in New York but then of course also being a Broadway mom and the key word sacrifice and then

also what it means to be a woman especially now versus then I mean what are your thoughts about

as you're a part of this show and taking on the role of Angelica full-time now, what are your

thoughts about being a modern-day woman, you know, and raising children and having, or thinking you

need to do all the things, and then juxtaposing it with your role as Angelica and thinking about

how life was for women during that time in history? Yeah, I mean, we were very limited

you know we've come a long way I mean there's of course there's still you know walls to break down

there's still you know things that we've gotta work our way around but I think the most profound

experience that I'm having is that you know the idea that you have to choose you know what I mean

and whereas for Angelica she didn't have a choice in that in that period you know um I'm a girl in

a world in which my only job is to marry rich. My father had no son. So I'm the one who has to

social climb for one because I'm the oldest and the wittiest and the gossip in New York City is

insidious. So it's just the idea of choice. You know what I mean? We got choices now

and even still we are having to fight for the choices that we even have

you know what I mean? I think that's the biggest that's the biggest takeaway is that we

we keep having to fight for our right to have our right to choose anything

you know what I mean? To design anything for ourselves and now it's just so profound because

you know where in an industry where you can get sued for getting pregnant you know what i mean

in an industry where you know you basically just get put through the ringer for not

you know putting your personal life on the chopping block to be able to step into one of

the most iconic roles currently running on Broadway as a mother of two is I really hope

that it in tandem with all the wave of women in the industry who have pandemic babies now

There are so many performers now who have had children or are having children or

just within the last two years. It's been a big baby boom

And I'm really hoping that this is a sign of a changing in the times, another turning over of, you know, the way things have gone, you know

And I definitely would love to be a major part of whatever it takes to make it so our industry, it's not so taboo, you know, and we are supported and we have we have a community together

You know what I mean? It shouldn't be, we shouldn't now be excommunicated from the theater because we got children

Like, that's just crazy. And there are smaller groups here and there, but I feel like this is an opportunity

This is a time now that so many performers have had children over the pandemic to like

all right, let's rally. Let's get together. Let's, you know, let's support each other, you know

So, yeah, I think that's the biggest thing is the opportunity and the option to choose

Thank you. Thank you for your time, your talents, your words. And we can't wait to see you more on Broadway and beyond and congratulate you

So thank you once again. Awesome. Thank you so much for having me, Candice

This was a blast. Oh, I'm glad. I'm glad. I know it's early in the morning. So I would want it to be fun

I would want it to be fun. That's the goal. Sorry, I'll get away with that. We talk about the experience and have fun, and that's what it's all about

So, yes, thank you from us at Broadway World to you and your family

Congratulations and good luck. And thank you all for watching this episode of On the Rise with Candice Cordelia

Please go to Broadway. If you can get tickets, keep your eye out on the website to go see Hamilton and see Jenny

as Angelica Schullier and all of her wonderful classmates on the show. Thank you once again for

tuning in and stay tuned for more exclusive interviews here at On The Rise. Until then

take care and have a wonderful rest of your day